[Keano]

So several days ago I met a Persian music producer who brought up avery valid point and controversial issue, he mentioned a "Reputable"online radio station "Radio Javan" which By the way apparently hasrecently become a great source of viewing music videos in HD quality,he went on by claiming how Radio Javan manipulates the votes on musicvideos, he even named a singer's video as an example. So this was agood enough incentive to tease my sense of detective work, thus furtherinvestigating the matter. So this is what I found out:

Radio Javan suggests that Siavash Ghomeyshi's recent music video"Alaki" was submitted on February 4/2010 (precisely 17 days ago), whilebearing 1,234,428 views, which is BTW an amazing and impressive number of hitsfor a music video which was recently released and broadcasted,apparently this video was specifically Radio Javan exclusive and if Iam not mistaken even bia2.com was not allowed to play this video on itsmain page. Anyway back to topic, below is a snapshot of Radio Javanstatistics and the clip itself:




So now I took one step further and checked their traffic on alexa.com ,well interestingly I found out that Iran Javan's average daily trafficfor the past 3 months has been 50,677. Hmmmm given this traffic statsfrom such reliable source "Alexa" even with the assumption that everysingle visitor of Radio Javan clicked on Siavash's video clip, thetotal number of hits on this music video after 17 days since it wasadded to Radio Javan website would add up to 861,509 total viewerswhich is 372,919 off to that of Radio Javan's claimed 1,234,42 views, notto mention that music videos of the likes of Dariush, Ebi are stuck at100-200K views, this just doesn't make sense, no does it add up. AnywayI invite you folks to take a look at the below snapshot of Alexa Statson Radio Javan:

[ramon]

looooooooool great job kingi I'm very impress...
Not even to mention they copy everything from bia2..
kafiye bia2 emrooz iphone app bede biroon farda ona midan..
HD bia2 mizare hafteh badesh ona eyne ma mizaran and etc...

[Keano]

If I am not mistaken one of the founders of Radio Javan used to post here (Hamed?), I never really visited that site regularly until a few months ago that I was suggested to take a look at it and check on some music videos, indeed Radio Javan has improved a lot from 2-3 years ago and I applaud them for that, however I was very disappointed to find out about Siavash Ghomeyshi's video fabricated views, although I for one am a big fan of Ghomeyshi's music and voice, but this has nothing to do with him and his music, it's all about principle and Radio Javan's credibility being tarnished!

[DJPedram]

Hey,

First of all, it doesnt require such investigation to figure it out. Any reasonable person would have made this assumption. I made such assumption 10 days ago...when I first saw it passing 300 thousands. anyway how here is the root problem?

Bia2 and sites like radio javan are MAFIA bazi...which means, u will get such a turn out.

What i mean? Bia2 only works with certain artists, certain promoters, and also certain singers events and lots more.
Same goes for RadioJavan. We all know that Bia2, is a bigger site with more viewers, but again Bia2 has turned down to work with many reputable people, b/c of certain connection they like to hold.

anyhow, the problem the whole persian community with holds is that, we all like MAFIA bazi. even this goes to site that are fully run in IRAN.

give you an very clear example.

the music video of "BAROBAX - SOOSAN KHANOOM" was only released on Bia2 and Radiojavan right after 24 hours. The music video was first released on RAPFA.com

go figure.

[DJPedram]

Also about Siavash Ghomayshi song Alaki...and the votes he gets. Buddy $$$$ buys u votes. what it means? it means, u can make up votes as much as u want....just to keep the music video on top of the list.

why the last 2 songs of "ZEDBAZI", it gets released only on BIA2 radio the first 24 hours, why?
b/c of MAFIA bazi dadash.

[Keano]

First off "Mafi bazi" does not only suffice to the Persian music industry, on the contrary this mafia bazi trend is more intense in such larger magnitude and unfair fashion, this statement comes from someone who's exchanged musical efforts and work closely with so many American and International artists/producers, I witness so much dirty plots and hypocrisy behind the American market that would blow one's mind who's not familiar with the inside of the industry. Nonetheless back to our discussion, yes you're right, it doesn't take a genius to figure out how these made up numbers and votes over at Radio Javan is being abused by the administration of the site, but I for one normally prefer to come up with some solid facts and proofs before accusing someone of such discrepancies!

Opting to work with certain artists and companies is one thing and cheating on abusing your authority in such popular websites is another, show me one example of such cheats on bia2.

I don't quite get your Barobax example, care to elaborate please?

[DJPedram]

Let me give u my 2 cents for over all:

1. Bia2 is older site, is around longer then any other site. But Bia2 has had its share of ups and downs. they use to be much more entertaining. now they have lacked behind in many features, such as not allowing people to comment on the posts. so basically site is ran by # of people, and they make the decision on whats good and whats bad, and no one has any say in it. that was my concern with bia2 for many years. also bia2 not workign with many promoters and artists, shows that they do lack of many good talents out there. what am i trying to say, is when u have a local artists that wants publicity, will go to any measure to get it, i would say for 90% of the time, will be turned down by Bia2 admin, why is that? maybe cause the admins taste of music is different, and just b/c of catchy site name and the reputation it holds, it makes decision for its fan.

2. radio javan been around for few yrs now, they got their push through lots of tv ads and lots of artists working closely with them. b/c of selling song feature. for every song sold 0.80 cents goes to artists, 0.20 site keeps. but radiojavan has more of International fan base and user base. radiojavan is involved in many events, such is musical, political and also allows users to post feedback and comments, even though i had my share of differences with the site owners. but over all, they do lack quality stuff. they do provided all the junk possible, but their collection is growing. i dotn think their radio is any good, in comparison with bia2. but they have some positive notes.

in regards to barbax:

bebin its very simple, barobax are in IRAN, so they will work with a site admin that is run from iran, considering that both bia2 and radiojavan are filtered in iran. so their music video was broadcasted only on RAPFA the first 24 hours. after that, you saw Bia2 and Radiojavan both have on their front page.

This brings me to a point, that the sites are not become artists based, meanings it rus its content by artists. no more creativity. it has become a music base, and soley on that. the sites dont have anything useful. specially when u have youtube, that cover 1000 times more content at searchable fingers.

I do disagree with both website bia2 and radiojavan, for filtering many musics. if they considers themselves as music sites, then post everythign u c out there. but again have a pannel that rates such. radiojavan rating is lame, cause its very possible to hack the system, as this is a exact system as youtube.

bia2 is worried that if they allowed their visitors to post, it would get out of control. why? cause they dont have enough mechanisim to control it.

over all, both sites are good for community, but they are MONOPOLY in the market which is no good. and specially not working with underdog, is the worst.

[Keano]

Ok now the topic has completely deviated from its main purpose, but it's ok. The points you've just highlighted and brought up to me are considered more of a personal point of view and perception of an ideal site based on personal taste and demands, although I will not argue, nor will I object to it, as a matter of fact I do agree with a few of your points as they sound valid and logical.

What makes you think that it's Bia2 who has decided not to work with certain singers and promoters?

[DJPedram]

Well long story short, I grew up in Toronto. I followed bia2 from back in the day when Amir use to be in Orlando. anyhow after years and years artists that i know worked so hard to make music, music videos and have contacted bia2 in many many occassion, have got no responds. now all of a sudden bia2.com is promoting events and sponsoring concerts in toronto. come on dude. eliminating the whole team and only working with selective individual is all good. but at least respond to peoples request. let me give u an better example.

the celluar phone companies in canada were monopoly for many years. recently law passed and mnay new companies have now emerged. what happend? competition grows, prices falls and options become many instead of few. what am i tryign to say is that bia2 content has dropped in many aspect, due to their choice of people they work with. this shows from the events posting.

you see some events flyer being posted only on bia2 and some only on radiojavan and some both have it.

this is very sad, instead of getting the community together, we are seperating it anyhow its pretty late here. i should head to bed. but i am looking to hear ur respond in the morning.

[Omega]

lol, keano agha, this Siavash Ghomayshi view claim also made me highly suspicious. What puzzled me even more was that when i first checked the vid after only 48 hours it was at over 300,000 views. The following day i took another look from a dif IP and noticed it was only at 198,000!! So again, 24 hours later i checked again from original source and it was at something like 600k +. Something just didnt add up. Good investigating on your part and glad it proves that these viewing totals were entirely fictitious!

I see that the topic has digressed somewhat. It is apparent that both sites incorporate artist/producer affiliations and that's not entirely a bad thing. At least we don't have a monopoly of content which would only serve to strangle the industry. It is worrying though if indeed RJ is fabricating data for endorsements.

DJPedram (nice name btw hehe), i agree with some of your points. Particularly when it comes to being able to comment on content. I think though we have to take into consideration the time it takes to moderate etc.

[zilizix]

.

This post has been edited by zilizix: 24 February 2010 - 09:58 PM

[zilizix]

Let me first introduce myself, I am a Radio Javan team member and this thread was brought to our attention by one of our members. Just now when I was registering for this forum I had to agree to this “Registration Terms and Rules” that said: “You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate,…” after reading this, now more than ever I am glad I decided to register and post this article that was prepared by one of our other team members to set the record straight on some “false” and “inaccurate” misinformation here:


What A Million Views Mean

A few weeks ago at Radio Javan, we premiered the new video “Alaki” by recording artist Siavash Ghomayshi. After about 18 days (as of this writing), it has been viewed over 1,300,000 times, which easily makes it the most popular video ever on RJ. The closest other videos have come have been around 300-400k views.

Now it seems this has caused controversies with “some” claiming that these views are fake and RJ is making it up. We’ve strived to make our video views count show up accurately. While we make sure that if the same person views the video twice within a certain amount of time that it only counts once, maybe sites like Youtube are more restrictive and their period of time is longer than ours. I’m not sure because they don’t publish their algorithms on what a “view” is. But I can tell you that the video file for the Siavash Ghomayshi video definitely has been served up over a million times, at least.

If you compare this video with other videos on our website, you can easily see that the statistics for it are through the roof. It has about 3,000 votes. And with what definitely can not be faked by RJ, you can see that it has almost 10,000 shares on Facebook. If everyone of those shares were done by people that have an average of 200 friends and say only 20 of those friends ended up watching the video, well you can see where a lot of the views can come from. And to be clear, our view count also includes views from both Facebook shares and our popular iPhone app.

However, what’s really interesting is that some of the staff of one of our competitor’s websites, Bia2, have started a thread on this forum and accusing RJ of faking the view counts on the Siavash Ghomayshi video. But their “data” is completely flawed. They decided to use Alexa’s numbers to show that the video could not possible have had that many views. Now, Alexa’s accuracy is completely bogus but let’s pretend it’s not.

In their post, Bia2’s calculation is based on the number that Alexa provides for RJ, which is 50,677, and they calculate that to mean how many visitors RJ gets every day. Except that number is the ranking of RJ compared to other websites, not the site’s daily traffic. If it was, then Google would have 1 visitor a day.

And this is where it gets downright ironic. If you go to the videos that Bia2 displays, their “view” count number is always evenly divisible by 6. How is that possible? Hmm… Here are two screenshots of this before they fix this.

Screenshot #1

Screenshot #2

And let me say one more important thing about the Siavash Ghomayshi video — everyone of us at RJ were shocked at the traffic for this video and we did not expect it. Our traffic levels on those first few days of the premiere matched the levels we’d see during the Persian New Year (Saal Tahvil) time, which is the biggest time every year. Looking back, there’s a few things that I think contributed to this success. One, we had teasers and advertisements for the video before the release. Two, Siavash’s management did an unbelievable job in promoting the video on their own. Three, there are many, many web blogs that are dedicated to Siavash and helped spread this video. And four, Siavash is pretty damn popular on the internet (much more than most artists).

I’m not the type of person that brags about how good RJ is, and I hope I didn’t come across like that in this post. We do our thing and let people decide, which is what matters most. I was surprised, though, to see the staff members of Bia2 venting out their frustration in public. We all know the Persian industry is a small community, and it needs everyone’s support to keep growing. Competition is a good thing, it keeps the industry on its toes and doesn’t let a few people dictate its destiny. We’ve never tried to play favorites at RJ and try to treat everyone as fairly as possible. As an example, if an artist works with one of our competitors, it doesn’t mean that we’re going to boycott them. We will still support them. That’s who we are, and that’s how we operate.

This post has been edited by zilizix: 24 February 2010 - 10:03 PM

[Keano]

Alright, Let me introduce myself, I am "one of the staff of one of RJ's competitors" only God knows what my name is BTW! and the above post was brought to "My attention" by one of our "Members" . Well thank God I am already a member of this site so I don't have to "register" to agree with the "terms and rules" of this forum! thankfully though I am fully aware of our own "Terms and rules" since it was created by Bia2 team (Mind you that yours truly is a small member of the team). Nevertheless I am glad that you're "Glad" to have registered here to use this matter to bash and question Bia2's "View count" , I truly feel ecstatic that my scandalous comment inspired your enthusiasm to having bothered to go through reading our terms and rules followed by a genuine registration and some kind words on some bia2 staff, as well as shedding some in regards to Bia2's videos. Shame on Bia2...

I surrender to your take on Alexia's stats that I posted in my first post and applaud you for clearing it up for all of us, however I laughed out loud at your comments addressed to Alexia's credibility on their stats, calling the site "Bogus" !!!!! with all due respect that comment and remarks was quite a lame shot and I "Pretend" as if I didn't hear it from "A member of Radio Javan team"

Ok, ok, you're "Right" Alexia is "Bogus" shame on them for providing us with false information and statistics , I got a very reliable and reputable source to authenticate my claim (Bear in mind that stats and numbers are provided by a neutral and internationally known site and "The staff of bia2" did not by any chance create them, so please drop the conspiratorial theories, as one will not subscribe to it, as it will sound as "Bogus" as Alexia).

Anyway I invite you and all our lovely readers to observe the following snapshots of some interesting stats about Radio Javan, this reflects RJ's past 30 days traffic, showing how many visitor RJ had:






Alright, alright, it's not fair to expose only Radio Javan's stats to the public here in this thread, therefore and just to avoid unjust actions I will share a snapshot of Bia2.com's stats reflecting its visitors during the past 30 days, please enjoy while you're seeing the number of the visitors:




Oh BTW sorry for the late reply, you know this wasn't a priority of my life to respond right away, therefore I had to take my time and take care of more urgent matters in my daily life first, tonight I had some spare minutes to write a reply, it was delightful to have met you here and please say hi to dear Hamed, and tell him hope to see him post along here once again, he truly was a great member here in bia2 forums, and I for one miss him. Thank you Zilizix jaan (Love your name), oh BTW my name is Keano, just for the record. So long!


How frisky are we?

[Keano]

So afterall you can see that Alexa's stats which I had initially and wrongfully mentioned in my original post were shamefully and erroneously way off and too high for Radio Javan's number of visitors, when I searched and searched more carefully and deftly the actual number of RJ's visitors dropped awfully to more than half of what I had originally posted per Alexia's suggestion which again was misunderstood by me. Thanks to Zilizix for clearing up Alexia's stats for me!


Hmmmmm, 460,500 total visitors in 30 days, while the very same site claims a particular video had 1,300,000 viewers only in 17 days!

[Omega]

Thanks for info Keano jan.

[zilizix]

Dear Keano,

Thanks for introducing yourself in your last post, now let me do the same, my name is Poriya and I am a Radio Javan team member. When I originally copy-pasted the article, the links that the article points to didn't show up. For example, the claim that Alexa's data is bogus was backed by an example of Alexa saying Youtube is bigger than Google, which is clearly not correct. Even in your last post with the huge screenshots, the data that the screenshot refers to is still Alexa. The full article is at: http://www.coolestan...lion-views-mean; Now that we have put that argument to rest, let me thank you for at least not being that dishonest to claim, like some of the “members” in this thread have, that Radio Javan copies from Bia2, when in reality between our 2 organizations Radio Javan was first in introducing the Radio (hence the name RADIO Javan), First to introduce the iPhone App http://www.radiojava...avan-iPhone-App and of course first to come up with the MP3 store to name a few, which they were all shortly followed by Bia2; but we never saw any harm in a friendly competition and never once complained and were only shocked by claims and posts in this forum.
We have always considered Amir as a friend, afterall he has been to our houses and we have shared many meals and laughs together. So I do not see any reason why a Bia2 team member such as yourself will go to the extent of taking time from “more urgent matters” in his daily life to post such threads trying to discredit or belittle another professional Iranian organization that has never gone out of its way to do any harm to yours!

Best wishes and Happy Norooz!

[Siamak]

radio javan az jaye digeh 'garm' misheh keh man behtareh hichi nagam !


100% orefer bia2.com !

[Keano]

zilizix, on 04 March 2010 - 11:46 AM, said:

We have always considered Amir as a friend, afterall he has been to our houses and we have shared many meals and laughs together. So I do not see any reason why a Bia2 team member such as yourself will go to the extent of taking time from "more urgent matters" in his daily life to post such threads trying to discredit or belittle another professional Iranian organization that has never gone out of its way to do any harm to yours!

Best wishes and Happy Norooz!

Just a clarification, Amir had nothing to do with this topic and discussion, so we may count him out, as matter of fact no other Bia2 staff had anything to do with this!
I will take my time to question even Amir and Bia2 website should bia2 commit such obvious and scandalous discrepancy on its site! LOL @ "More urgent matters"
I have nothing personal against RJ, honestly I never even visit that site, hell I don't even have time to visit Bia2's main page either. RJ's case on this particular video became sort of the laughing stock of most LA based artists and Persian entertainment businesses that it honestly did not really require my attention and emphasis on disclosing it to public. But I still respect you guys for having established such popular site and internet radio!

Did you have piaaz and torshi Irooni in your meals that you've shared with Amir? I love Salad Shirazi BTW!

[Siamak]

amir bahas inaro sue kone and win lots money .